25 Years Later: What 9/11 Taught Us About Being Firefighters with Peter Cachia

25 years ago, our nation changed forever. And for the fire service, September the 11th became a day that we would carry with us forever for the rest of our lives. 343 firefighters from the New York City Fire Department didn't come home that [00:01:00] day. But the story of September the 11th isn't only about those 343.

It's also about the firefighters who survived, the brothers and sisters who carried those memories home, and the lessons that have shaped the fire service for the last 25 years. Today, we're going to hear one of those stories. I'm Travis McGaha, and this is the All Clear Firefighter Wellness Podcast. My guest today is Peter Cacia, a retired New York City firefighter who was there on September the 11th.

Peter is gonna take us back to that morning from the first radio transmission to arrival at the World Trade Center. He's also gonna talk about the collapse of the South Tower and his own fight to survive. But what makes this conversation so important isn't just what happened on that day. It's also what happened afterward.

Peter talks openly about survivor's guilt, PTSD, nightmares, and the struggle that many [00:02:00] firefighters have historically had when it comes to talking about what they experience. We talk about cancer, exposure prevention. We talk about how firefighter training has changed and even how respiratory protection has improved.

And we talk about what's probably one of the most powerful aspects of the fire service, the brotherhood. Because 25 years later, the question isn't simply whether we remember. The question is, though, what are we going to do with what we've learned? So as you listen to Peter's story, I want you to think about your own firehouse, your own crew, and the lessons that you want to leave for the firefighter who comes after you.

Because we don't just want to remember, we want to learn, we want to adapt, and we want to carry it forward. This is All Clear Firefighter Wellness Podcast. 

Travis: so we are here talking to you, Peter, because if you look at the shirt, Fire [00:03:00] Department of New York, we know the 25th anniversary of September the 11th is upon us. Right 

Peter: around the corner, yep.

Travis: Well, by the time you see this, it may be already that day. Okay. But, um, so Peter, why don't you tell us why that day is important to you, why it's something that, that would be on your mind? 

Peter: Uh, it's, yeah, a very important day. Uh, I believe a very important day to the fire service. Um, very important day for the country.

Um, you know, they always say 9/11, never forget. Um, unfortunately some people are forgetting. Um, but it was, uh, you know, New York City Fire Department lost 343 firefighters, um, in one day, um, which is a horrific number, uh, of firefighters to lose. Um, I lost some friends that day. I'm still losing friends unfortunately, 25 years later, guys are still sick from this- Sure

and, uh, still passing away. Um, just something very [00:04:00] unbelievable, I mean, in my mind, and I'm sure in a lot of the firefighters' minds and a lot of my friends that day never thought that would ever happen. I mean, that, just the whole circumstance of using- airliners as, you know, weapons of mass destruction. 

Travis: Um- I know, I, I was not in the fire service at the time, but I remember where I was when it happened.

Yeah. And I was actually working as a substitute teacher- Oh, okay ... here in Concord dealing with kids and teenagers, and I remember their reaction to it. But I, I, I can't imagine what it was like to 

Peter: actually be there while it was happening. So it, it was, I remember that morning, a beautiful day, not a cloud in the sky.

I was actually in the station eating breakfast with the lieutenants, um, chocolate chip banana pancakes. That sounds good. It's amazing. I can tell you what I had for breakfast 25 years ago. I can't tell you what I had for breakfast two days ago. But, uh, and I remember hearing a [00:05:00] radio call from Chief Pfeiffer.

Um, he came over. You know, he was-- They were actually out on a gas leak in the street, and the first jet had flew right over them, and they actually witnessed it fly into the North Tower. And he came over the radio and said, you know, "Transmit the third alarm. We just witnessed a plane fly into the North Tower of the World Trade Center."

So just like me and everybody else, we thought, all right. You know, the Trade Centers were pretty close to the Hudson River. There's always Cessnas there. There's always these tour planes flying up. We thought, you know, it's a small plane. Okay, somebody made a mistake. Somebody got off course. I remember walking out of the station and looking out, 'cause we were very close.

We were less than a mile from the Trade Centers, and I remember looking and, and seeing that gaping hole and seeing that black smoke. I'm like, "This is not a, a Cessna. This is a jetliner." And, um- It just didn't make sense. You know, now you're thinking, "Well, why is..." [00:06:00] Yes, LaGuardia, you know, New York City, when you flew into LaGuardia Airport, y- you, you were pretty close to it, but you weren't that close.

So you think, saying in your head, "How could a pilot make that much of a mistake?" You know, until then when the second plane hit. That's when you know, all right, this isn't an accident anymore, that we're being attacked and, you know, now, now the game plan changes. Right. You know? Yes, we have to do our job. We have to, you know, we have to take care of the fire, we have to take care of the, the patients and all that, but to what extent?

You know, now, um, it's a saying I s- I say here at the track, now you gotta have your head on a swivel. Is there another plane coming for us? Are we gonna be attacked again? So your tactics, your firefighting tactics, your EMS tactics are, um, a little different. Um, I remember pulling up to the scene and it was just chaos.

I mean, I, I... You know, people ask me when I first started working here, people ask me, "What was that day [00:07:00] like?" And I would just say, "It's like, like the ground opened up and hell just came out," 'cause that's, that's exactly what it was like. So I've had 

Travis: a lot of friends that were there when it happened, not necessarily at the towers, but they were in- Mm-hmm

New York at the time, and they said that the whole city was in chaos. Oh, yeah. And, you know, we saw the video footage and we saw, like, what Mayor Giuliani was doing- Mm-hmm ... and- Yep ... and, and the dust clouds moving down the street. Yeah. Um, I've never encountered anything like that. Um, hope I never do. But, um, as a firefighter, when you s- kind of came to the recollection, all right, this isn't good.

We've got two planes, two towers, something, something's not, not right. S- yeah. You- Oh ... did you know that some of your brothers that were running into that were not gonna come back [00:08:00] out? 

Peter: You know, uh, I don't know if you remember, in 1993 they tried- Mm-hmm ... they bombed the towers- I do ... uh, from the parking garage underneath, and they were unsuccessful.

And I remember reading articles back then, I wasn't in the fire service back then, but I remember reading articles and they said, you know, "We will get you again," and, and sure enough, they did. You know, nobody, I, I don't think anybody expected the towers to come down the way they did. The, even to come down.

But then you have to realize, you have to look into it, you know, these were jetliners that were filled with jet fuel. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: You know, burning at a high temperature. Um, and again, as firefighters and a- a- as EMS people, even as, uh, police officers, we run into the danger. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: Was that thought in the back of the minds of everybody?

I'm sure. It was in the back of my mind. 

Travis: Sure. 

Peter: Um, I [00:09:00] didn't think that the whole building would come down. I thought that only from where the plane hit and maybe on top of that would come down. I never expected the whole to- all the whole towers to come down, both towers to come down like the way they did, and how quickly they came down.

I mean, in a matter of seconds you had two 110 story buildings and then just to rubble in a matter of maybe 10 seconds. 

Travis: Yeah, I can't imagine. 

Peter: And like you said, uh, I mean, you know, we run into the danger and I'm sure though, I'm, I'm sure some of these guys had it in the back of their mind, but you're not thinking of that.

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: You're thinking of your job. You're thinking of, "I gotta, I gotta get these people out of here. I have to get this fire extinguished. You know, I have to take care of these people on, in, uh, you know, the, the injured people on the street." But I'm sure it, it was in some of these, the, their back of their heads saying, you know, "What happens if these things collapse?"

But it, nobody ever [00:10:00] second-guessed it. Nobody, you know, nobody stopped and said, "Well, I'm not going up there. I'm not doing..." You know, it's their job. They did it, and they would still do it. Y- 

Travis: you 

Peter: know, it, it's one of those 

Travis: things whenever you go through training- Yeah ... y- you're-- I'll be honest, I was fearful the first time I put on a mask, the first time.

Yep. When you start going through those paces. Yep, yep. But then you know at some point 

Peter: you may have to. Yeah. And you have to. I mean, all, unfortunately all of the training that you got could never have get you ready for that day. I mean, they, they know what to do. They know, you know, you're on an engine company, this is what has to be done.

You know, in, in the, in the, those towers, that's a stand pipe operation. They know what h- hose packs they gotta bring and all that. But they n- again, never expected that. And, you know, these planes, you know, hit in the top-end floors, and these guys are running up, you know, 90-something [00:11:00] flights of stairs. And, you know, it, it, it was a horrible day.

There, there are, there's such, so many bad stories about that day, but there are so many good stories also about that day. Some stories of survival are, are absolutely amazing- Mm ... to listen to some of them. Um, I was, I was caught in the collapse of the South Tower. I was-- I left the North Tower because the South Tower was, um, calling for help at the command post.

I didn't walk through the promenade of the, um, of the buildings because of falling debris. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: And I'll just leave it at that, other falling objects. So I took the street, and as I was coming down Liberty Street, there's a firehouse, the 10 House they call it- Mm ... Engine 10 and Ladder 10. And, uh, I met up with a police officer, and I remember as we were getting to the closer, uh, getting closer to the tower, the ground started shaking.[00:12:00] 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: And as a typical New Yorker, I looked at him and I said, "Are you kidding me? The subway is running?" 'Cause it felt like the subway. And he said, "No, the tower's coming down." And he, he looked up, and next thing I know he turned and ran, and I kept walking. And then I looked up, I said, "Oh, ." And I said, "I'm not gonna make this."

And I remember turning around, and I remember seeing a truck parked right up near. Not a, not a, a fire truck, right? It was a box truck, and I just remember diving under it and saying, "This is it." And the truck got buried with debris. I was underneath it, and I was, I d- uh, I was buried for I don't know how long it was, maybe an hour or so, but, uh, I didn't think I was coming out of it.

Were you there with the police officer, Barry? He, no, he, he was a lot quicker than I was. He was able to, to get out of there. But, uh, you know, I, I said my goodbyes to my family. I said, you know, my, my prayers to God, hoping that he'll forgive me for a- anything [00:13:00] that I've done in my life. And I remember opening my eyes, and it was pitch black, and then that cloud of, of, of dust and all that, and I said, "All right."

I said, "Well, this is it." And, uh, you know, I just started yelling, you know, "Help. Mayday, mayday, mayday." And sure enough, a few minutes, oh, I don't know how much time later, a couple of firemen heard me, and they're like, "We're gonna... You know, we're coming to get you." And they moved some , and they pulled me out.

So that's pretty heavy. Yeah. That's, uh, it, it's Very tough to live with. You know, people have, you know, you have the PTSD and then you have the survivor's guilt, and you say, "Why am I," you know, "Why, why did I survive? Why am I still here?" And, you know, "Why did so-and-so pass away, and why did so-and-so-- And why are people still passing away and, and I'm still here?"

Um, very difficult to live with. Um, I [00:14:00] ask myself that question every day. I thank God every day when I wake up that I'm still here, but it's still, uh, it still is in the back of my mind, like, you know, why I'm still here. I, I mean, I've gone for therapy. We've all gone for therapy. After the incident, um, they had peer counseling coming to, uh, the stations and talking to everybody and, you know, firemen and EMS and, and the police officers, you know, we don't, we don't sit and talk about our feelings or anything like that.

You know, we're the tough guys. 

Travis: Right. 

Peter: You know? We run into the danger. We don't, you know, we don't have time to sit down on a-and talk to you and say, tell you about our feelings, but when it originally happened, it, it was tough. I, I really didn't like talking about it. But, um, I mean, here we are 25 years later.

Um, I'm not gonna say it's easy to talk about. Uh, it's easier to talk about. Um, uh, you know, people ask me about my experience, I tell you, I don't have a problem anymore sharing it [00:15:00] with them. Um, if it can teach, uh, them Excuse me, what not to do, then that's a good thing. If I can save one person, then, then, then that's a good thing.

Travis: Well, we appreciate you taking time, time for us to- Absolutely ... 

Peter: ensure your experience 'cause

Travis: I know it's deeply emotional for you. Yeah. But I'm gonna share a little piece of my experience. 

Peter: Okay. 

Travis: So, uh, my son, I think he was probably seven or eight, we went to New York City. Okay. My wife lived in Brooklyn years ago. But, um, I told her, I said, "I wanna go see World Trade Center-" Yeah ... you know, that area."

And we got to go by the 10 house. Mm-hmm. And, uh, you know, it, it's a operating firehouse. Oh, yeah. A- and, and I'll be honest, the firefighters, I thought they were gonna be cold. I thought they were, man, they're not gonna have time for somebody from Concord, North Carolina. Oh, yeah. But, but I, I told them who I was.

I said, "Hey, I'm in the fire service." "Oh, oh, come 

Peter: on in, bro." 

Travis: Oh, yeah. "Come on," 

Peter: and they, they welcomed me. Very welcoming, absolutely. Absolutely. 

Travis: They brought us in [00:16:00] and they, they gave us a tour of the house. They let us see the memorial wall that they had. On the side of the building, 

Peter: yes. 

Travis: Well, they had one inside that they- 

Peter: Yes, 

Travis: yes

as well, and I felt truly honored to be able to do that. But one of the things that really jumped out at me, I was expecting, you know, us from the South, we have our jokes about people- Yeah ... in the North being- Yeah, yeah ... so, so, so cold and difficult and... Well, it's not true. No, not at all. Because when I walked in there that day, I felt a type of warmth and brotherhood- Mm

that you only feel in the fire service. Yes. Very few other places. 

Peter: Very, and it, it... I mean, it's true because listen, fire is fire. 

Travis: Yeah. 

Peter: Whether you're here in New York, whether you're here in Concord, North Carolina, Charlotte, fire is fire. We're all doing the same job. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: Yes, New York might be a lot busier, and, uh, but like you said, it's a brotherhood.

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: Soon as you said, you know, "I'm with the fire service," come on in. Even if you weren't with the fire service, they're gonna welcome you in. 

Travis: Right. A- and they were super, they were [00:17:00] super nice and open, and we talked a little bit about what happened. But- Flash forward years now here, I have more of an appreciation for the brotherhood, and the connection, and the support that's within the fire service now.

Oh, yeah. And do you think that the strong bonds that many of us have with our crews, our departments, our fellow firefighters, do you think that comes from events like September the 11th? 

Peter: It does. Um, yes. I mean, the, the brother- the, the brotherhood was very, uh, close that day. I remember that day. I have a, um...

I got a cousin that was on a job also that day. Um, and I remember after everything was done, after both colla- uh, both towers were down, you know, during the whole day you really don't think about that. You have a job to do. You think about your jobs you have to do. But when you have a couple of minutes to just sit [00:18:00] back and be like, "All right."

And that was the first thing that came to me. I said, "Oh, , my, my cousin Edward, you know, he's in Harlem. He had to be here." So I remember looking for his company. You know, he was in, uh, 53 Engine, and I remember looking for his company. I remember looking at the guys in a pile, looking at their helmet shields, and I came across with a guy, 50.

I said, "Hey." I said, you know, "Eddie Cascia." You know, it's, "Yeah. Who are you?" I'm like, "I'm his cousin, Peter." "Oh, he's looking for you. He's got a couple of guys he's looking for you. He knew you would be here." I'm like, "Where are they?" Where-- And I ran into him- Right ... a couple minutes later and just gave him a big hug.

And, you know, I said, "Yeah." But the brotherhood definitely, uh, I, I think it made the bond stronger, um, with firefighters. Uh, but also, you know, firefighters, you're living at the firehouse 24 hours. You're, you know, you usually you're working with the same crew- Right ... every shift that you work. And anything you [00:19:00] need, you know.

A lot of the firefighters had second jobs. I was a carpenter. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: Um, and, you know, "Oh, Tom needs some work done on his house." "Okay. Let's go." And we'd make a day of it. Go work. Go fix his house. It's your second family. Right. You know, and you put your life in these guys' hands, you know. I'm going into a burning building with you, or, you know, I, I, I'm riding an ambulance with you.

Uh, you put your lives in their hands, you know, and you, you trust them. You trust to say, "God forbid something does happen to me, I'm gonna be safe." So 

Travis: when, when we look at the brotherhood, it's not like working in an office. No. It's not like working in- No, not at all ... in, in some other municipal department even.

Peter: Yeah. 

Travis: Um, there, there's something truly unique. And, and I do think that we are understanding more when it comes to things like mental fitness- Yes ... mental health. Yes. You mentioned the post-traumatic [00:20:00] stress- Yeah ... things like that. Those are real. I don't care what anybody 

Peter: says. Oh, yeah. They're real. And this was something that really wasn't You know, post-traumatic stress was something that soldiers had from- Right

from the wars when they came back from their tours of duty, and now all of a sudden we have post-traumatic stress in the fire service. I mean, here we are 25 years later, and I still have nightmares about that day. 

Travis: Right. 

Peter: And I'm sure many other people do. And b- the days after that had happened, I mean, I didn't sleep.

I didn't, I didn't sleep for a few days. I closed my eyes and that's all I saw. I saw the worst of that day, you know? A- and it's, it's something that the fire department didn't know how to handle because a lot of members were retiring on post-traumatic stress. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: And this is something that, like I said, they really never dealt with that, so they didn't know.

But now mental health, like you said, is a big part of [00:21:00] the job. I mean, we see things that, you know, your ordinary people don't see. When you see somebody's worst day every day- Yeah ... it, it, that 

Travis: accumulation will build up. 

Peter: Yep, 

Travis: absolutely. But I think the other thing that also came out of... I, I don't know. I know it as a fact, that came out of the events there were the exposure issues.

Peter: Yes. 

Travis: And I, I, I know many firefighters that have cancer actively- Oh, yeah ... not just because of September 11th in New York- Yeah, yep ... but just from the exposures we face. Would you say that we're in a better place now than we were 25 years ago when it- I believe so ... 

Peter: when 

Travis: it comes to dealing with mental health- Yeah

and exposures? I 

Peter: believe so because I, I was guilty of it also. Um, you know, that Scott pack, you know, uh, is nice. Um, I remember my volunteer fire department, I was also a volunteer in my hometown in Massapequa, and listen, there were times I'd go into a fire, I didn't have my mask on. Mm-hmm. You [00:22:00] know, we'd be operating at a car fire outside, and I didn't have my mask on, and, you know, it's, we're outside.

I don't need to be... But I, I think it's the more training that's done- Right ... the more people realize, hey, you know, it, it's free. It's free air. Put it on. It's gonna help you later on in the future. And- Yeah ... I, I, I see, yes, it, it, it's, it, it's definitely better. Um, the masks are being worn, uh, a lot more than they were, as like I said, I, I was guilty of it myself.

Um, but yeah, I, I think the training is c- getting more strict with having a mask on, uh, and everything like that. I mean, when I first joined the vo- my volunteer fire department, my engine company, we didn't even have enough masks for everybody on the truck. We had two Scott packs on each truck. Right. 

Travis: I've heard those days were- 

Peter: And, you know, if you didn't get one, then you were outside.

You know, you're out, you know, stre- helping stretch the hose into, into the building or whatever it may be, and then You know, then they got Scott packs [00:23:00] for everybody. You know, it had one mask for every pack. And then it came to the point where now, okay, everybody's gonna have their own mask, and every year you have to get fit tested- Right

to make sure it fits. You know, no facial hair was allowed because the seal wasn't correct, um, or anything like that. So yeah, I believe it, it, it's getting better. I think they're more aware of the diseases and the cancers and they're, you know, helping prevent them No doubt 

Travis: New York has that, the events there and the fire department there have really pushed hard for mental health- Oh, yeah

cancer awareness- Yep. Yep ... d- cardiac. They lead in the, in, in the world- Yeah ... for that. 

Peter: Yep. 

Travis: Um, but you mentioned something I, and I did not know this until you just mentioned it. You said you were a volunteer in Massapequa. 

Peter: Yes. 

Travis: So volunteer fire department versus being, you know, at a full-time paid [00:24:00] department, you know, a lot of times there's- Mm-hmm

oh, it's a different world. Volunteers frequently face a harder push than I think a lot of people give them credit for because not only are they doing what you were doing- Yeah ... but they're also doing another job, a different life- Yep ... outside of that. Do you think that even in the volunteer service, do you think things are better now than it would've been- Oh, 

Peter: yeah.

Oh, yeah ... five 

Travis: years ago? Just 

Peter: the... Oh, yeah. I mean, my department, Massapequa, very large department. We had, uh, three firehouses, um, three engine companies, two truck companies, EMS, heavy rescue. It was, it was a big department. You know, when I first started there, we had the long rubber coats with the rubber boots that you pulled up and everything like that.

And as time went on, you know, everything evolves. Long Island is now probably almost, I believe, 100% volunteer. Really? There were a couple of paid departments on Long [00:25:00] Island, but I believe they have went to volunteer. Um, there are paid EMS people on Long Island because EMS is just very busy, I believe around the region.

But, um, it evolved. I mean, Long Island is very influenced by New York City. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: Um, everything that New York City does, the Long Island departments eventually get to where New York City. My department, Massapequa, our bunker gear, the bunker gear that they wear now is the same spec that New York City has.

Wow, 

Travis: okay. 

Peter: Um, mask fittings. Like I said, everybody has their own face piece for the Scott Packs, and every year you have to go for, um, a mask fitting. Physicals, you still, you have to go for physicals, and this is all paid by volunteer. You know, the department pays for your physicals to make sure you're in good health.

Um, so yeah, I, uh, the volunteer fire department is going in the right direction, but the problem is on [00:26:00] Long Island it's very expensive to live, budget. So the volunteer firefighter is almost like a dying breed. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: I mean, when I first joined, I first joined my volunteer fire department in 1988, and I was a kid.

I was 22 years old, and- We had to fight to get into the truck. We had so many guys that just wanted to be on a truck and go- Sure ... I mean, the officer would have to come and l- literally say, "You know, you get off the truck. I, you know, we can't roll with this many guys on the truck." Now, you know, when I go home every once in a while, I still have friends in the department.

I talk to them, and unfortunately it's not like that anymore. 

Travis: Yeah. 

Peter: You know, the people are working two, three jobs just to afford to live- 

Travis: Mm-hmm ... 

Peter: in New York. I mean, property taxes, the price of property tax are just very expensive. But, uh, they are going in the right direction where they are taking care of their members, that's for sure.

Well, I can tell [00:27:00] you one thing, Peter, you have a unique 

Travis: opportunity. You, most of the guys that were there s- and gals for September 11th are retired. Yeah. You have the opportunity right now to look back at what your experience was, and now you've got a chance to talk to- Mm-hmm ... the current generation of firefighters.

My first question to you, what would you have done differently? Take it 

Peter: off that time? I know that might not have been a bad idea. Um Let me see. I mean, just so many things happened that day. I mean, I don't think I would've done anything differently, um, 'cause there really wasn't much that we really could've done.

Like I said, I really don't think anybody expected those towers to come down. Um, it's hard. I mean, you know, everybody knew, [00:28:00] unfortunately, anybody that was above where those planes hit, you know, they really weren't gonna get them out. But again, as firefighters and EMTs and paramedics and, you know, we run into the, you know, so we're gonna run in, we're gonna try to save as many people as possible, and we're gonna try to put that fire out.

We're gonna try to get up there and extinguish that fire. Um, but, you know, the chiefs a- and all them, I believe in the back of the head they knew that, you know, this is, it's gonna be a losing battle. Maybe we should just call everybody down, let this thing burn, evacuate the building, let every-- let this thing burn, and get everybody out there.

But unfortunately, when they decided to do that, it was a little too late, um, and that south tower came down. It was, um A great success, I wanna say obviously before these towers came down, but just getting people out. I remember pulling [00:29:00] up to that scene and it was just chaos. The people, the amount of people that were running out of the buildings was just crazy.

And again, the police officers, the paramedics and EMTs, you know, you know, yes, thousands of people died that day, but just think of how worse it could've been. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: It could've, it could've been a lot worse. 

Travis: If they, if trained people had not been there- 

Peter: Exactly ... it would've been a lot worse. If it was ... If, if

Exactly. Um, even, even the security and, and the training of the, the, the staff inside the towers to say, "Listen, you know, evacuate, but you're gonna go this way to evacuate. You're gonna go this way to evacuate." So it was ... I'm gonna say it was a success that way. Obviously when everything else happened that wasn't such a great success, but it was a, a success that way.

I really don't think I would've done anything different that day. Um, I tried to do my job. Unfortunately, I, [00:30:00] uh, suffered a very severe back injury, um, that's why I'm retired. I have all metal rods and plates in my scr- in my back. So I did the best I could that day to the point where at the end of the night, um, two police officers actually carried me down to the nearest hospital, which was about four or five blocks away, uh, downtown Beekman Hospital, and I just couldn't take it anymore.

I was in such pain, and I remember pulling up, uh, walking up to the building with them, and the, just the line of people that were there, and the police officers brought me right in and put me on a bed, and they grabbed the doctor, and they're like, "Take care of him," and that was it. And I stayed there for a couple hours and I drove home, I'd still covered in that dust, and I remember going home and my wife, actually she, my, she was my girlfriend at the time, she said, "What are you doing?"

I said, "I'm gonna shower and I'm gonna turn around and go back." And that's, [00:31:00] uh, that's what I did. But, um, I don't think I would've much, uh, did much, uh, differently. Like I said, all the training, um, that you can get or have would never have prepared you for that day. 

Travis: I imagine not. That, that was a, uh, what do they call it?

A black swan event. Yeah. One where it's very, uh, hopefully we'll never see that level again. I, I hope not. 

Peter: I, I mean, you know, it went from a, a firefighting operation, a rescue operation, to a total, you know, rescue operation, and then the recovery operation how many weeks later, um, and everything like that.

But, uh, you know, everybody did their job. Everybody did what they were trained to do. Um, and again, training i- is very important. Um, I had, I had a captain of mine, uh, in my volunteer fire department, he was also a, a lieutenant in the New York City Fire Department, and he always used to say, "If you think you know [00:32:00] everything there is to know about firefighting, you need to quit."

'Cause you never, you never know- Right ... everything about firefighting. Everything changes. I mean, from when I was in it to 1988 to now in 2026, I mean, you look, I mean, nothing is routine anymore. 

Travis: No. 

Peter: Just the building materials, how the building materials have changed, uh, in these houses and these buildings are using- Mm-hmm

car fires. Car fires aren't routine anymore. You don't know what the- Everything's 

Travis: hazmat. 

Peter: Yeah. You don't know if you're pulling up to an electric car, if it's a, a hybrid car. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: You really, you really don't know. Um, but that's why training is very important. Training, y- you have to stay on top of you, you gotta stay up to date with your training.

You can't be training for things 20 years ago, you gotta be training for now. And, you know, 

Travis: it's, it's interesting to hear you say you can't think of anything you would've done different, which I, I think that i- that makes perfect sense. But if you're talking to the new generation of firefighters- 

Peter: Yeah ... 

Travis: [00:33:00] the, the, the new guys that are in rookie school right now- 

Peter: Mm-hmm

Travis: the ones maybe that are on the job for five, 10 years- 

Peter: Yeah ... 

Travis: what type of training, I... You said learn the skills that are current. 

Peter: Yeah, 

Travis: yeah. But what other things do you think that new firefighters need to know, need to be aware of to be more resilient? You 

Peter: can't, you can't let that day scare you Firefighting, uh, EMS, paramedics, police officers, it's, it's not for everybody.

It's not in everybody's blood. It's not for everybody. Like you said, the first time you put a mask on, um, you would get... I remember when I first joined my volunteer fire department, I was- I- my high school buddy, we were at his house and then I used to see his father running in, you know, he'd be running out of the house all the...

I said, "Well, where, where's your father going?" "Oh, he's a volunteer firefighter," and this and that. And he was in the EMS company. Yep. And I spoke to him and I said, "You know, I wanna, I wanna join the fire department, but I don't wanna be in [00:34:00] the EMS because I'm, you know, I'm not-- I don't like blood." I don't do that very well.

But meanwhile, I went out and got my EMT- Right ... and I was an EMT for 25 years. Funny 

Travis: how that happens. 

Peter: So again, but for the new generation of firemen, just like I said, you gotta stay on top of your training. Listen to your senior men. Your senior men are the key to any type of job like that, any civil service job, a p- like I said, police officer, EMT, paramedic, firefighter.

Listen to your senior people. They know. They've been through it and they know. All right? But training, to me training is the most important. Um, keep yourself up to date on your training. Like I said, everything is new. These- the building materials, the vehicles, and just the, the, the... Listen, the way to put out a fire is still the same.

You know? Put the wet stuff on the red stuff, you know? Yep. Whether, like I said, you said it, it, if it's gonna be a hazmat, uh, operation, uh, a, a rope rescue, a high-angle rescue, your [00:35:00] training is the key. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: If you're trained for it and you know your job, you'll, you'll do it. You know? It, it, it'll-- It's like, uh, muscle memory.

You'll do it. Um, listen to your officers, obviously. They're- have, you know, they have the knowledge. But, you know, I tell people, "Don't be scared of that day. Don't let that day reflect on your career." If you wanna be a firefighter, if you have it in you, do it. Don't, don't have that in the back of your head saying, "Well, what if this happens?

What if..." You can't live with what ifs. Yeah. What, what ifs can get you in a lot of trouble if you're not careful worrying about that stuff. Just being a freelancer. Yeah. You can't, you can't freelance, you can't do things Without having a sense of direction. Unfortunately, a lot of times people get,

you know, they get blinders on and they, they see, you know, one thing. Um, [00:36:00] size up at a fire scene. I was, uh, a captain in my volunteer fire department. Size up on the building is very important. You know, you have to know what you're going into. You can't just say, "All right, you know, it's a one-story house and this..."

You have to know where you're going. You have to know, and your members have to listen to you. You c- you can't just be out there freelancing, um, 'cause that's how people get hurt. Yeah, and I, I think there's been a lot of emphasis put on that in the last 

Travis: probably two or three, two or three decades in general.

Yeah. But- 

Peter: Yeah ... 

Travis: you know, we've had a lot of stuff that has grown out of the experience of September the 11th, not just in New York, but also Washington, DC, Pennsylvania. Yeah, Pennsylvania, yep. Um, 343 firefighters Died that day. Um, and they're still- Casualties ... passing away Coming away from it. Yeah. And I think, I think it's important, um, you know, whenever, uh, Chief Cash reached out to me and said, "You [00:37:00] need to talk to Peter about his experience," I was like, "Yeah, okay."

And, and in my mind originally I thought, well this is just gonna be a storytelling about what happened on September the 11th. But it's more than that. It's the fact that you learned, you've taught me, you're able to pass that information along to the newer generations. And whenever we get to the 50th anniversary of this, um, maybe we'll say- 

Peter: If God will, we, I'll still be here.

Travis: Well, you know, 25 years went by pretty quick. Yeah, it did. But i- it's, it's interesting to see how people are changing, but the basics never change. No. No. 

Peter: Know the basics and you'll be okay. That's it. Firefighting, basic firefighting isn't hard. Like I said, you put the wet stuff on the red stuff. Stuff, 

Travis: yep. 

Peter: I, I remember my volunteer fire department, I did it as an officer, and officers before me did it.

Your, your, your primary hand line into a residential fire is an inch and three-quarter. And there are [00:38:00] times in my volunteer fire department, Sunday mornings and during the summertime, Monday nights were our drill nights. Right. That's when we would go 

Travis: out and practice. 

Peter: And there were times where we would just go and stretch inch and three-quarter hand lines.

Stretch it, okay, repack it, stretch it, stretch. And it gets frustrating. Mm-hmm. Why, why are we doing this? Why are we... 'Cause when you get good at the basics, then we'll move on. 

Travis: Mm-hmm. 

Peter: But until you get this down and it works, because, you know, stretching hand lines, my company w- was a very good company, and it came like second nature.

Inch and three-quarter, boom, everybody knew what to do, and that's it is. It, it, it's just, like you said, when you get the basics down, and when you're good at them, then you can move on. You know, um, I appreciate you taking the time to talk about 

Travis: this. Oh, no problem. And 

Peter: it sounds like you have zero regrets about- No, absolutely

Travis: about what's- 

Peter: I, I- ... your life has 

Travis: been so far ... 

Peter: I enjoyed, believe it or not, I wanted to be a cop. I had- 

Travis: Glad you didn't ... 

Peter: I [00:39:00] had, I had, uh, I ha- have a lot of police officers in my family, from brother-in-laws to sister-in-laws- Right ... to nephews, and I wanted to be a cop. And I actually joined my volunteer fire department before I was in the New York City Fire Department, and I loved it.

I loved it. I mean, just the excitement of, you know, r- getting on a rig and going to fires and, and I remember my father saying to me when I first joined, my father said, "You know, you're not getting paid for this." I'm like, "Yeah, I know." You know, "Well, why do you do it?" I'm like, "I love it." But then I was like, you know- You can't have that attitude because if people thought the way you're thinking, Dad, we wouldn't be here.

We wouldn't have a volunteer fire department. Right. I never knew, I, I, I remember, um, every year i- in my volunteer department we have a thing called a fun drive where the firefighters go and they knock on a door and they ask for money to... And I [00:40:00] remember I was, I was young, and I remember the fireman coming over there and I asked him, I said, "You know, don't, don't you get paid?"

"Well, you- oh no, we don't get paid." And, and I was like, "Wow." And then how many years later I joined and like I said, I was in my volunteer fire department for 24 years. But you know what? Uh, there, there have to be people with the crazy gene and I'm the one with this- Oh, yeah ... I guess. And- Yeah, I mean, like I said, I, when I became a fireman it was funny, I remember my, my nephew who go, "Oh, you, you get paid to sleep and blah, blah, blah, and this."

I said, "Oh, I'm sorry. I wanted to be a cop, I took all the tests, but I went this way. I'm sorry." So. 

Travis: Yeah, I've got a lot of friends that are police officers. 

Peter: Yeah. 

Travis: They're good folks. I, I rib 'em all the time- Oh, 

Peter: yeah ... 

Travis: but you know what? Yes. It's all brotherhood regardless 

Peter: of- That's it ... what it is Their job is just as important.

I mean, we had a very good relationship, um, in my volunteer fire department with the local police department, we had a very good relationship with them. And, uh, like you said, b- a police officer, it's a brotherhood [00:41:00] too. We're all doing the same job to a point. We're all running into danger. Right. Where other people are running one way, we're running the opposite way.

And, um- It just depends if you're shooting back or not. Exactly. Exactly. 

Travis: Well, Peter, thank you for taking time 

Peter: and- Thank you very 

Travis: much ... it's been a pleasure. Thank you, Travis. And, uh, what, you know, I usually sign off by saying, "Light your fire within," but I think, uh, you have, uh, definitely motivated everyone.

Thank you. And, uh, we look forward to talking to you again. Thank you very much.